If you’ve ever found yourself wondering how your working life could be more fulfilling then this conversation with Jonas Altman is for you.

Jonas has just written a book, ‘Shapers’, which explores how to take control over the work you do and shift your focus from the pursuit of happiness to the pursuit of meaning. And if all that sounds a little highfalutin then we also spend a chunk of time talking cinnabuns too.

There’s loads to reflect on here; from the value of doing nothing to the question of why, at the acme of industrialization, we are working harder than ever before. We chat about how organizations can take simple steps to become more creative; why failure should be destigmatized; and why some companies are paying new employees to quit.

And Jonas shares three tips to enable you to become a shaper.

For more on Jonas and the book click here.